Interview With Professor Krieger About The ICGRT

Heather: Hey guys! How are you doing? So I just wanted to introduce the person that we are interviewing today. This is Keven Krieger. He is a professor of finance at the University of West Florida. Kevin you went to the International Conference on Gambling & Risk Taking, right?

Kevin: Yes I did.

Heather: Awesome. We would love to hear your experiences and how you felt about it.

Kevin: This is a fantastic event. This is the triannual I supposed – This is the third time I have been. It brings a lot of scholars and industry folks from around the world to this international event. A lot of representation from Europe and Asia. A lot of Canadians as well. I learned a great deal about all sorts of things close to my area which is sports wagering. Also other areas that I didn’t spend much time thinking about until you get here. The atmosphere and being around people is the best part.

Heather: That sounds really cool. What kind of panels and events did they have?

Kevin: There's a lot of different choices. The conference is set up where each session is an hour and a half. The program lays out four or five different choices on things you can go to. My panel was sports wagering. But a lot of sessions on problem gambling. There are a lot of sessions on regulation challenges. There are a lot of sessions on marketing. There are a lot of session on history. I was at a historical one earlier today and I was also at a Problem Gambling one. Most out of curiosity as well as my own (indistinguishable)… So regulation, pro team sports betting…

Heather: Awesome! What are some topics they would talk about? What stands out the most to you?

Kevin: I think the – the event itself has served its purpose. The thing that stands out the most to me is how much people care about wanting the industry to do well and provide a positive experience for the players. There's are a lot of well meaning folk here that want to see things improve. I think that is the biggest take away. It’s kind of inspiring and gives a good feeling to be around these kinds of folks.

Heather: Fantastic. So how many days is the conference?

Kevin: This year is three. I think there were more in the past. I might be wrong about that.

Heather: Okay. Is it like 8 am in the morning until 5 p.m. at night?

Kevin: It’s funny you can tell it's slightly the Vegas flair because most of these conferences tend to start at 8 but this one doesn’t start until 9 a.m. So there is just a little self awareness about that kind of thing.

Heather: They understand what you guys are going to be doing at night.

Kevin: Correct. Correct. The first panels tend to be at 9 a.m. There is a lunch speaker. Today I was - that was lunch. But then Cirque Du Soleil had a little part of today's luncheon. And there are afternoon panels as well. There is some kind of a wrap up dinner or function which is typical.

Heather: Does the International Conference of Gaming – does it have different levels? Like do people go and buy tickets, do they have general admission level, the gold ticket level –

Kevin: It tends to be – well as far as I know it’s a one price for all. It’s not cheap, but on the other hand most of us are here on expense accounts and that sort of thing. There are a lot of perks that come with it. The meals, the shows, the parties, the networking. It’s a very all inclusive price. They also do a good job working with the resorts. This is the second time I have been at the Mirage and they have done a great job working with (Indistinguishable) to get a genuinely good price.

Heather: Okay. Now I know a couple of the people that I have been talking to beforehand. A lot of people have been really interested in the fact that Pen Jillette was here this year. Where you lucky enough to –

Kevin: No I got here after he – I wasn’t here until the end of that one. I did not make it here in time. No. Sorry.

Heather: So tell me about one or two of the panels that you liked. How long was it, what did they –

Kevin: Standard stuff. About an hour and a half per session. The one that I was presenting in also had a couple other gentlemen in horse racing, which I knew nothing about. And a little bit about sports betting history as well. I learned some things I didn’t know and added some perspective to some of my writing going forward.

Heather: So what is one of those things if you don’t mind me asking?

Kevin: The biggest take away from it was how early Nevada was to allow that sort of activity and wager. A lot of the practices that we think of as kind of standard, whether typically offered things like that, had a genesis of 50 to 60 years ago and I didn’t know that.

Heather: Okay. So I see that we have some comments. When the fun stops, kind of panel, right? What kind of information did they focus on for helping people combat that or help the problem?

Kevin: This was a lot of public policy type of discussion. Again not as much as my area of expertise. More of a layman learning about the topic by being there. Hearing some experts. A lot of talk about identifying at risk individuals earlier. That sort of things. Some things about correlations with other addictive behavior. Just sort of – better education by putting the word out, and knowing a little more about susceptibility for problem gaming.

Heather: Okay, sounds good. I know with problem gaming especially – problem gambling and everything, I don't know if they talked about this, let me know if they did… but usually with problem gambling the people that are addicted to gambling or they are addicted to alcohol, it’s becuase they are trying to self medicate for an underlying problem. Usually it is depression or bipolar disorder or something along those lines. Did they talk about that at all?

Kevin: Yes. There was some discussion about that absolutely. The correlation is there exactly, that sort of thing. Potentially encouraging sufferers to seek out treatment for underlying issues more quickly would be part of the reason for studying this and having it unfold more. I would say yes. And on top of that, a lot of discussion on things like biochemistry that are way above my head like dopamine type of thing. Like I said, I am not a biologist. I am sorta glassy eyed about that.

Heather: So what were some of the things that people would look for when identifying these problems? I know as a casino dealer we would identify it when we would go home from work that night and then the next night when you started a shift they would be in the same spot wearing the same clothes. They had not moved or gotten up. Nothing had changed.

Kevin: Oh wow. Did you see that somewhat happen more than once?

Heather: Oh yes. And you – sometimes I would have people there multiple days. It wasn’t like just one day for 24 hours and then they would go home. They would be there like 2 - 3 - 4 days in a row. They would gamble so much that they would get comped at the restaurant. So they would go eat at the restaurant and come back and continue playing. If they wanted to go to sleep they would either sleep at the table or there was a lounge next to the gaming area and they would go sleep in the lounge and their money and stuff would stay there. We would have to watch it for them and you know they would be gone for an hour at the very most.

Kevin: Right? Most of what I gathered this year from this time was talking about correlations with other addictive personalities. Things like alcoholism, as you say, narcotic abuse, etc, etc. Basically just the idea that if we recognize that these people are at this greater risk, and you can either have a more proactive policy to disallow their play. At what point is enough or two much? But the bigger part of the focus was about trying to educate those people themselves of their problem. It is always going to be hard because people have free will and make choices and not always in the best position to judge. Things like that.

Heather: Well asking anyone to overcome an addiction is just incredible.

Kevin: Unrealistic.

Heather: Yeah. Because it is so difficult. And it takes so much time and there are always going to be failures. That is just the way – we are humans. We make mistakes. We fail. That is part of it.

Kevin: Yep. My area of sports wagering that I study – I know from experience say from when I was younger, there were people that could not afford to play sports the way that they did. And with the proliferation of offshore sports books, especially in the Caribbean and things like that, people got in trouble. You know life altering trouble. It’s sad to see. It’s scary to see. We will never cure that sort of thing. The more we know about it the better.

Heather: Exactly. The more we can address it. So speaking of sports betting and everything. I know we already talked about this a little bit –

Kevin: Okay.

Heather: Did you see anything on esports or anything with video game related to betting?

Kevin: No. Actually I don’t remember as well – I think there was some talk at a different panel that I was not around for that. Sorry to let you down on that.

Heather: No. No. You are good. But I mean there was a panel –

Kevin: I believe so. I remember thinking – I think it was during my session.

Heather: Why don’t you tell us more about that. You had a session. You were a speaker. You gave your presentation. What did you talk about?

Kevin: Okay so my piece with a coauthor, my good friend and colleague Justin Davis was about the Supreme Court striking down PASPA last May. May of 2018. That is the Professional and Amature, Sports Protection Act and that allows states if they want to legalize sports wagering, the same way it has been legal in Nevada for many many years. What happened to companies that are in the gaming industry when that was allowed? The first thought would be this is a windfall for them and when they now have this potential revenue stream the stock price should go up in accordance with that. And the answer was, yes it did. But we document how much? Sometimes to the order of 5 to 7% increase in stock prices for stocks like Boyds, William Hill, which is foreignly traded but still easy to trade here. And then less so for some of the other bigger properties where sports gaming would be a smaller part of their mission of their industry. Still happens and happens quickly. The most interesting part of the peace - The most interesting part of our paper from this year, about the supreme court or sports betting is that it was kind of foreseeable what was going to happen. Like months and months in advance all the justices of the Supreme Court gave the indication that they were going to strike this law down and yet the market didn’t adjust to that. Like the stock prices didn’t seem to care until it was really really a final thing and the decision came out last May. That is not how it should happen. In the traditional finance market efficiency, the right prices are supposed to move immediately with the news. That really didn’t happen here. So that is why this piece from a finance professor found something interesting because that is not how it is supposed to work in theory but it is how it worked.

Heather: So is this something that you were going to look into say next year to see if the trend continues or to see if anything changes?

Kevin: Right. So the law – so there needs to be a long term follow up about this sort of thing. Exactly how do the expectations of what’s going to happen for these companies jive with the actual revenue increases and once new books are open in Missouri or Iowa or Pennsylvania or other states that are sort of on the cusp of allowing some sports betting.

Heather: Okay.

Kevin: We will see. That is exactly one of our thoughts about what will be next.

Heather: There really are not too many states right now who are getting into it right? Really just a handful of states that really started the process.

Kevin: New Jersey was really the one that initiated all of this by filing lawsuits that eventually worked its way through the Federal Courts. And so New Jersey was ready last May (2018), basically to pounce and allow sports betting. Then Mississippi was pretty quick as well. They have a casino presence. The rest of it has been slower, Pennsylvania, Iowa and Missouri there's other states. But it takes some time. In part because these are state legislatures that only meet a couple months a year and they have a lot to get done during their session. They have to make a decision on what to prioritize.

Heather: Okay.

Kevin: But it’s slow. We are only up to a handful still.

Heather: Hopefully we will start getting excited about it and start getting into it.

We have a question from our YouTube follower.

Q - What is ICGRT?

Kevin: International Conference for Gambling and Risk Taking. It’s a mouthful. This is the 17th edition of them. You know the folks at UNLV. It’s an enormous amount of work to put something like this together. Every three years is good timing because between the amount of work and hosting the event gives everyone a chance to go to the next level on their research.

Heather: Is this a once a year type of event.

Kevin: Every three. Every three. So 2013 was my first time, 2016 and now 2019. In 2022 I promise you I am already ready to be back to 2022. It’s a fantastic event. I think that they used to – I could be wrong about this, but I will go ahead and say it, I believe they used to rotate and go to Reno, Vegas, Reno, Vegas and at some point they decided to stay put. What all the professors all over the world wanted to do.

Heather: We have another question from our audience…

Q - Do you think sports betting will grow to where it will be as common as slot machines or table games? Or do you think it will help the overall casino gambling industry?

Kevin: I think it will increase. It will take time. I doubt we will ever have the same – in my lifetime we probably won't have the same culture behind sports betting like they do in say England where there are parlors on every corner. You can argue with that comes more of the issues that we were talking about. The problem issues. But, I do think the availability – I bet you from 10 years from now you will see a sports betting presence that is double, triple, the volume that we are used to right now. If you just aggregate it nationwide because of what is legal. The questions are going to be: how much of this comes into the light legally in the US versus how much of it stays in the black market offshore. How much of that comes online – speaking of online, mobile is the future.

Heather: Oh yeah!

Kevin: You have to have – there are still going to be people that are here on vacation, like me, that want to go to the counter and have a ticket and see a person just to say you did it. But that is not where the action is. The action is going to be on the – the big thing with sports betting, many places now there's the end game action where you are constantly within the game itself. You are allowed to make additional wagers and that sort of thing. The mobile cart. The apps – that and sorting out the regulation of all that is going to be the big key to all the growth.

Heather: Do you think – I can definitely see the mobile apps taking off. I can see it going the same route as say mobile games. Where it is that kind of addiction.

Kevin: Yes.

Heather: Do you see one state or one department say having complete control over it or do you see the Federal Government creating –

Kevin: That’s a good question. We tend to think that we will stay largely state by state regulated kind of thing. There are some states that in their draft of their legalization of their new sports betting that are being much more proactive and realistic about mobile betting. And then there are other states that don’t want to do it at all. They want you to have a window and they want you to have a brick and mortar and they want to do this. Those places are not going to see the impact that the ones that are 21st Century ready with the mobile.

Heather: Okay. So really the states need to get on their game.

Kevin: If you are going to do this, then do it! Like if you are going to allow it then do the mobile. Keep the commission, keep the rates reasonable as to encourage the legal play and not keep people out – If you are going to do it. That could be a value choice and if you want to say no I get it. But if you are going to do it, do it.

Heather: That is great advice.

Kevin: That is my recommendation. No one asked me. Well except for Heather.

Heather: I’m asking.

Kevin: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Heather: We have a question.

Q - Sorry if this question is a little too niche but I was wondering how do casinos protect their handheld games from cardmarkers? And why some casinos will not allow double down cards to be delivered faced down.

Kevin: I want to know the answer to the double down card down. Why some casinos are fine with it and others are not. For a shoe game.

Heather: Well how they normally protect the handheld games is when the deal is holding the deck they have to protect the deck from anyone who is shuffle tracking. They can see where they marked the cards and where that card is in the hand. So in order to protect that they have to hold the deck a certain way to cover all sides. When they are putting the cards up or down…if a player doubles down and they want the card, some casinos will allow the card to be face up and some casinos will say you have to put the card face down. The reason why is of course the card counters it is so much easier to card count on a single or a double deck. So when you turn the card face up as a dealer and you expose the card you are making it much easier for the player to count the cards.

Therefore you are lowering the house edge making it more advantageous for the player. That is why most casinos will tell you to put the card face down when you are delivering the card. When the casinos who don’t care, they have you put it face up…take a look and notice how many handheld games they have. Do they have a lot of handheld games? Probably not. They will probably have one or two. It’s going to be a high limit. So if it is in a high limit they are a little more lax or a little more easy going in that way. Especially if the player is betting $5000 a hand.

Kevin: That would do it.

Heather: Yeah! Yeah! Sure we can totally do that.

Kevin: Anywhere you want.

Heather: Yeah exactly. Anything to keep you on the game. So it really just depends on the casino and the table as well.

Kevin: Okay.

Heather: Jay (a YouTube follower). Jay says one of the differences between betting with a bookie and betting in legal sports book is that betting with a bookie you do not have to put up money ahead of time.

Kevin: Right.

Jay: Do you think legalized sports will be able to overcome this?

Kevin: That is a tough one. That is a great question. I don’t know. You are exactly right. The states are never going to allow you to play on credit. I can’t see that ever happening but I guess I could be wrong. You are right. It’s going to be a balancing act of the ease of credit and making things square once you hit a win or a loss that tends to happen in a bookie type of situation vs – Okay but now you are legal way, you don’t have to worry about the IRS or the – well you won’t be hauled away. I don’t know. That is a good question. You are right. One of the advantages to doing it the sneaky underground way is the credit. That is exactly right.

Heather: One thing I was remembering while you were talking that I want to point out really quick. Another way to deter from marking cards on a single or double deck, don’t allow them to touch the cards with two hands. They are only allowed to touch it with one hand. If they touch it with two hands, they could have Daub underneath the collar or something and they could be marking the cards.

Kevin: How often do you see that happen? People marking cards.

Heather: In the five years that I dealt, probably three or four times.

Kevin: Okay.

Heather: So once a year type of thing. Often enough.

Kevin: I think that sort of thing is really interesting. Did you know right away? You saw it happening almost immediately?

Heather: Well here is the thing. Just because people go into the casino and do that, doesn’t mean they are necessarily good at what they do. So you have a lot of fumbling, a lot of mistakes and everything. And it’s like, “What the hell are you doing over there?”

Kevin: Right. Right. As a novice, a late person I am thinking of a perfect case scenario but I –

Heather: MIT right?

Kevin: But a lot of people are probably – they have to start somewhere and they are not good at it when they start.

Heather: I had this one guy try to count cards on the continuous shuffle machine and he was trying to figure out why it wasn’t working.

Kevin: That would be hard.

Heather: Right? Then I had another player who actually told me he was counting cards. But the dude was $2000 under so it’s like go ahead count cards.

Kevin: Keep counting however you are counting.

Heather: Yep. You're doing a great job.

Kevin: I remember in one of your videos I remember seeing something like checks play or something like that is sort of an alert for a potential – Oh that seems so benign as a player I wouldn’t necessarily know that I could be potentially EYED – that’s probably why you do it because you are not necessarily wanting to –

Heather: Exactly. So when you are saying check play as a dealer – Checks play is basically another way of saying that the checks went from a very small amount in one single jump.

Kevin: That would be something that a counter would be doing.

Heather: Exactly. That is one of the things you look out for. So that is one of the ways you notify the floor.

Kevin: But it is subtle.

Heather: It is. Yeah. Totally.

So Jay says double down card, face down takes longer.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jay: And some casinos are looking to maximize hands per hour.

Heather: Yeah. That is absolutely correct.

Kevin: I figured. I have played low enough limits where if for good luck I want that double card down. Sometimes – oh we are not doing that. But then you should play more than $10 a hand.

Heather: The casinos are more willing to accommodate if you are playing at a higher –

Kevin: It’s amazing what runs the world. Money right?

Heather: I had a quick story.

Kevin: Please. I love your stories.

Heather: I had this guy on my blackjack table one time and he had 16, he hit a card, got a 10 for 26. He picked up the 10 card, crumpled it up and ate it, and then asked for another card. I call over my floorman and I am like we need another 10 of hearts. He is like, what do you mean you need another 10 of hearts? I am like the player just ate it. He was like, stop bull shitting me, can’t you see I have stuff to do. I am like I swear to God, we are short one card. Call cameras if you – I don’t know what to do. So he goes and calls the cameras. He is pissed. You can tell he is pissed. And as he is talking to cameras you can see his face change from anger to one of complete and utter bewilderment. And he comes back and he is like, well if he wants another card so badly go ahead and give him another card. Ok sure. So I hit him and give him a 5 for 21 and we ended up paying him. I asked the guy later, what was that about?

Kevin: Yeah. Why did you allow that?

Heather: Yes, exactly. And the floorman said, “For $30,000 a day for three days, I think he can have one card for $90,000.”

Kevin: Fair price. So you really can do anything.

Heather: There is a spectrum.

Kevin: I guess grabbing one more 10 of hearts from a deck would be faster than having them change everything. There you go.

Heather: Yeah. Exactly.

Another question.

Q - Funandgames - One of the reasons casinos still allow you to put two hands on the cards is because it’s harder to switch the cards in and out of the game.

A - Some magicians are really good at the stuff. So if you go to my YouTube channel I have a video of the players switching cards and you can see techniques being used.

Kevin: You are right about the magicians. People can do things.

Heather: A lot of people can feel that way where they are like I don’t know how people can do this. One of the things that dealers have to look out for are distractions. Are people spilling drinks, and are they knocking stuff over? Are they asking really embarrassing or personal questions? Those are all distractions that if the dealer notices that they have to realize that this is a distraction, and then take a look at their game. You know, watch their game. Make sure there is no pinching, pass posting, anything like that. So that is one of the ways that they use to try to get away with that. By distracting the dealer.

Kevin: Makes sense. That is the thing – you learn a lot about finance, we talk about. You learn a lot about people where there is money involved because it tends to get everything to the bottom line really quick. Including what people will do when they can make a buck.

Heather: yeah. Exactly.

Kevin: I am too shy. I get horrified by the thought – I would be embarrassed to be around that game. Like sitting in the next chair or what not. Too shy.

Heather: Yep. You can’t be shy when you are a casino dealer.

Kevin: Yeah. I admire that about you a lot. Like you say, thick skin, get over everything everyday.

Heather: It’s like being an entertainer. Basically you are entertaining the players.

Kevin: This is true.

Heather: Any more questions?

Kevin: So should I bet the Warriors tonight? I don’t know.

Heather: That is a great question.

Kevin: By the time some of you see this you will know what I should have done.

Heather: If only there were time travel.

Kevin: I am going to go into player mode myself this afternoon.

Heather: I have a question for you. What are you looking forward to the next time you come to the International Conference?

Kevin: That is a fantastic question. I am hoping we will know more about what’s happened with the state regulations. There is nothing that will be better than the real life experience with a few more years of politicians, policy, etc. coming down the pipeline. We will see what’s new. And we will know more about the mobile. I think I am most interested, in my specific area, to know who uses mobile, how much, and what ways. I know from a marketing side, and from the development side there will be some other people here in three years that will have some updates on that as well. I will try to play my little part in that area and hopefully that will be a next big chapter in sport betting.

Heather: That is awesome. That is really true. Well you have three years to prepare right?

Kevin: I know. I need to find something new to add so I can come back.

Heather: Charts and graphs.

Kevin: Yeah. Usually about a year out I really have this event in mind. I would really like to have something. Seriously, it is a nice event. I would like to have something nice to bring. So I start thinking about it a year out.

Heather: I have another question for you. Did you notice or did you see any other panels on the actual cheating aspects of gaming or cheaters what they do?

Kevin: No. I wish. I would love that. That is one I would go to for sure. If so, it slipped by me. You would be the ultimate expert on that. You should just do a full hour and a half yourself talking about that. You would be a perfect person to educate the whole – all the academics would learn a lot from you.

Heather: Thank you . I appreciate that.

Kevin: That is a fascinating topic for me. If they did that I would totally go.

Heather: Thanks. So what other panels have you seen or what have we not talked about?

Kevin: I am trying to think of what we have not talked about earlier. I know that there was a lot of talk about UK. Especially problem gambling it tends to be a cultural thing. It's a serious issue in Great Britain so I have learned a decent amount about that. And seeing what in particularly governments way, choices of freedom vs public policy differently in different places. It’s a cultural thing in England that they will never regulate in the same way that we would. Help, yes. Try to provide information, yes. But it’s just a cultural difference. That is one thing that I have forgotten about and I tend to relearn that every time I come to this event. Seeing the international perspective. The letter “I” in the conference title is International. In some conferences and events they throw that word out there almost meaninglessly here it’s the absolute big part of the event.

Heather: So do you think in Europe they see west people that have a problem with gaming?

Kevin: I think they see fewer people that have a problem but perhaps some of those that do have a problem, it might be even worse than here. Now I could be – I am talking about an area that is not my expertise. That is based on an impression I got from some of the topics. But it is sort of like drinking in France or something like that. Where you are exposed to it and you are around it all the time, from a child, sort of thing, it tends to be so normal that people over do it less. But, for those small segments that have a problem it is obviously an exacerbated kind of thing.

Heather: Okay.

Kevin: Yes.

Heather: We have another question.

Q - Tony - Just curious, any interesting seminars or lectures you plan on attending?

So are there any that you have not attended yet?

Kevin: We are about to go into our last session right and I need to go re-remind myself some things. I have a couple asterisk by things. I need to remind myself what was late this afternoon.

Heather: What was the panel seminar – what was the title of the panel seminar?

Kevin: Let me try to think. The title was somewhere along the lines of like, How big is this problem in a culture full of problems, or something like that. It was a problem gaming type of – of course it was a catch like to get attention but it was a good one. That was where you learn the correlations with other behavioral issues and addictions and things like that.

Heather: We have another question.

Q - Wolfgar - What speaker impressed you the most at the conference and why?

Kevin: That’s a good one. I saw Jennifer Roberts. But that was last time though.

Heather: I love her.

Kevin: I think she is at the same time that I was going to be this time. I would say that my – well first my college and friend Jessica did an amazing job of our presentation stuff as well. I would say besides that, I had a very good experience with a gentleman from Harvard, about the correlations with other addictive behavior sort of thing. I don’t remember the name, it was a day ago.

Heather: Well it left an impression.

Kevin: I am as susceptible as anyone. Harvard – when you see Harvard on there you are excited to be at an event like that. He did an amazing job.

Heather: Another question.

Jay: Q - How did the golden nugget in New Jersey allow betting on college basketball without knowing it was illegal by state law and he was overseeing stuff like this?

Kevin: It should be equivalent of – I don’t know. Jay I don’t know. That should not happen. It’s outside my comfort zone and I wasn’t familiar if there was a loophole and thought they were doing or that was a brash. I don’t know.

Heather: That’s ok. No problem.

Q - Fun and Games - Is problem gambling considered to be more of a character flaw or a mental illness.

A - Kevin: What do you think?

A - Heather: So I did a little research on this for the book that I am writing. A lot of what it is, people use the gambling addiction and alcohol addiction to self medicate themselves. So if they are going through something like depression or as bipolar disorder they use alcohol or gambling as a way to self medicate to make themselves feel better. So a lot of that is what it is, it’s an underlying problem or illness and that is the cause of it. It’s not a character flaw. Anyone who is going through alcohol addiction or gambling addiction, that is not something they can just change. It’s not something that they can identify, “Oh this is a problem.” And then they can change it the next day. It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of dedication, a lot of training with your mind. Usually the people going through it, it’s just an underlying factor of a mental disorder. It's a very difficult and complicated situation. I don’t think saying that someone has a character flaw is a good way of classifying it.

Kevin: You definitely know a lot more than I do about the topic but we definitely have a different perspective about addiction. As mental illness than we did even 10 years especially, even 40. Something like that.

Heather: Yeah. And anyone who is going through that, they don’t deserve our judgment, they deserve our help. They deserve our understanding, sympathy and they deserve our help. They don’t deserve our judgment.

Kevin: Practically speaking I would think you would be able to do more good with that kind of approach as well. But I get it, human nature is to judge with something like that. That applies to me too. I rethink differently about that than I used to.

Heather: It’s a human thing. It’s totally normal. I judge. You judge. Everyone judges. It’s just part of the way life is. It’s just knowing it and seeing it and accepting it and then trying to change that so you can be better. Some people don’t do that. Whereas other people would try hard to change that thought. It’s just one of those things where you are human.

Kevin: Yes. Right.

Heather: So Captain Jack said - Jay it’s because the people setting the lines are in Europe and set the lines for all SVtech books Golden Nugget in New Jersey they forgot to omit the New Jersey CBB teams.

Kevin: I don’t know. Is betting on – This is embarrassing that I wouldn’t know this, I always thought that you couldn’t wager on Nevada teams or UNLV at least, books wouldn’t book those games here. But now I feel like they do. I could be wrong about that.

Heather: Don’t get me started with this. Okay so, Las Vegas - I was born and raised here. I have been told all my life that we don’t have a big sports team because we don’t want to have a big sports team in the area that you are betting.

Kevin: We get the idea. It’s inviting trouble.

Heather: Right it’s inviting trouble. So in the late 90’s early 2000 they started changing that. The Universities and Colleges it’s ok. It’s not a big deal you can bet on it. Then that’s when they started bringing in – Ok we can do that …let’s do Raiders, let’s do a hockey team.

Kevin: I noticed that doesn’t seem to be as big of an issue as it used to be.

Heather: Yeah it used to be a big issue too.

Kevin: Now you have the Knights and Raiders coming.

Heather: Exactly, it’s one of those things. Watching the progressions and the evolution.